Posted by Cecilia on November 24, 1997 at 15:29:35:
In Reply to: Re: Santy's Faith posted by LP on November 24, 1997 at 14:56:45:
: Did you have a good weekend, I hope?
More or less.
: Thank goodness! Among my RL friends I am, but that's okay. They are obsessed with anime or role-playing, so I am allowed my vampires. *g*
I loved anime for a time, especially Saint Seiya (don't laugh at me please, but they all were gorgeous).
: : First, Santino was discussing with Maharet about Jesse, I am sure. remember, Jesse saw Santino at the Sonoma Compound, he gave her a ring, that dissapeared a night after. Maybe it was that Maharet did not like Santino to be near Jesse.
: I've thought about this, and it just doesn't seem right. I mean, yeah, *maybe*, but, the feel is wrong. Why would Santino care? Because Maharet is old? So is Eric, and he was made when Maharet was 3,000.
: (I'm melding your two posts together.)
: Why would they argue for two hours over Santino giving her a ring? This is one of those sections of the book that is really just too ambiguous to really go over. Santino did not seem to have a problem with Jesse, although the staring at her as though "she were an exotic animal" might be taken that way. It's more likey that he was merely surpried by her likeness to Maharet. Don't forget how similar people are always saying they are. He might also have been startled because she was mortal and a guest of Maharet, but i don't think so, since Maharet does have servants, so humans.
: The ring is probably a significant thing, but we don't know in what context. Emeralds mean eternal life. Was that Santy's foreshadowing of events to come? Subtlely 'marking' her, as it were? Was it just because he liked her? We can't answer the question. And because we can't answer the question, we can't say if the ring and Jesse is what Santy and Maharet were arguing over.
: I don't know enough about hand kissing and medieval court manners to go into the subject. Anybody out there willing to take up the subject to tell us how Santy might have been feeling or what he might have been thinking when he did such a medieval thing in the twentieth century to a woman he didn't know? Or the significance behind the action?
I don't know either. I think that Santino didn't like Jesse, as a mortal to be there, so he assumed she was going to be taken by Maharet. Remember also how Maharet argued with mael about it. I think that Maharet didn't like the meaning implied in the ring.
: Don't be so sure. I don't disagree about Mael not knowing. He was in the dark. Not enough so that he didn't know about the Mother, but enough that he didn't know everything that was going on.
: Santino however seems to know a little more about Akasha, as revealed in his statement on page 269 (QotD): "Don't be so sure of it!" He seems to know a little about the workings of Akasha's mind, and something which Eric would not have known, nor Marius or Pandora. Either he was in contact with Akasha, or he had been told something about her from somebody who had known her when she was awake. Marius, who cared for her for two thousand years, never guessed that Akasha loved him, yet Santy and Maharet did, and Lestat realized it because he had had extended contact with her.
: (The being in contact with Akasha comment brings up a curious thought. Maybe Akasha told Santy where to find Marius. Maybe he had been in contact with her. Another good reason for Maharet to be nervous when Santino questioned Akasha. Oooh. The plot thickens.)
Well, I hadn't think about this, really! I would have to agree with you in that Santino knew more about the Mother than Mael, but maybe all the vampires in the house had been discussing about it. I'm not sure.
: : Third, I think she talked to Santino in that way because she thought he would help her. I agree in that of the ideals though. Santino's ideals might have been once those of gathering power around him. But now, he knew it was useless.
: Hmm. Akasha seems not to have changed very much since she ruled Egypt. Very little change. She might also assume that others around her had not changed either. It is rather true, in a way. The basic characters of the people stay the same, Marius, Maharet, Lestat. She might not have been counting on the fact that Santy and Armand *had* changed their viewpoints and ideals.
: :I agree. I think that Santino might have made the decision in that moment.
: Very likely. Akasha seemed rather certain that he would go to her side, and Maharet had no idea which way he would go. However Akasha's plans and "ideals" weren't to either his liking or taste or ideology, though he might have thought so to begin with.
: :Well, I think that if he had had any faith remaining, he lost all of it that night. First, he left the coven when he lost his faith in
: those *ancient truths* (leaving the rest with the coven he had created). Then he might have believed that the Father and the Mother would take the place of God or the Devil for him (just as you say Armand always needed someone to guide him). And when he saw what Akasha did, he lost all trace of a faith.
: Yeah, I'd have to agree with that last sentence. I don't think it was so much the Mother and Father replacing God or the Devil, so much as Santino having a leader to follow. They were his progenitors, and he could have felt a loyalty to them for that. I know, I know. Huge leap. But it makes some since. After all. He believed that the coven leader had the right to destroy his coven, and that the coven should follow the leader, even into death. (He was quite the little soldier.) They were therefore the ultimate authority. And so it would be only natural for Santy to argue with Maharet on those grounds. My entire impression of Santy's hearing Maharet's tale...well no. Let me put it this way. Eric knew everything. The Great Family, the tale. Mael doesn't appear to have known (about the great family at least, but the tale and the great family are rather intertwined). Santy's impression is never given. Throughout the entire story. Either nobody bothered looking at him, or there was absolutely nothing remarkable in his reactions to the entire unfolding of events. I don't think that he knew the entirety of the tale. Only what he had been able to piece together from things Maharet and Eric had said, and then the old legends. But he knew a good deal of the tale. It was just what he had heard, before it was all laid out for everybody, made him side more on the side of Akasha. Or maybe he *had* heard the tale and just didn't believe Maharet. After all, there were no other witnesses, and she was obviously anti-Akasha, so she could say what she liked. I bet that if this were the case that it was Khayman's presence at the storytelling which pushed Santino towards Maharet's side. Khayman had been there. He had originally been on the side of the Queen, and then he had turned. And now he was backing up everything Maharet said.
: But yes. I agree that Santino lost the last of his faith on that night, especially when Akasha showed up.
: Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. Research and Michel's letter sopped up all my time this weekend. And I think I even covered everything. If not, point it out and the song shall go on. *g* Until next time, LP.
Never mind. We agree in many things now. Maybe this will end soon? We could begin another one (grin)