Interview of Joseph A Capecchi
The following oral history report of the
Cathedral of St. Paul is being
taped inside the Cathedral on July 9, 1976. I am Monsignor Hayden,
Pastor of the Cathedral and I will be interviewing Mr. Joseph A.
Capecchi, one of the craftsman and sculptors who worked here as it was
being built. Father LaFonaine presently an Associate at the Cathedral
is assisting us with this recording.
Mr. Capecchi - Where do you live at the present time?
I live on the West Side - on Gorman Avenue.
How old are you now?
86, almost 87.
Were you born in America?
No, I was born in Florence, Italy. I came here in 1906, I was
seventeen then.
Did you come here to work on the Cathedral?
No - I came through some friends - someone was going to start a
statuary business here in St. Paul. I was a student sculptor - I
came to see a new country.
When I came over here I went to work for Giuliani Statuary Company.
Many years
later it was incorporated and was called St. Paul Statuary Company and
that is what
it is now.
When you first saw the Cathedral - at what stage was it?
Just working on the foundation.
Do you have any recollections of Archbishop Ireland?
I do vaguely of course. I met him a couple of times. At that time
he used to live on
Portland Ave. The residence was then on Portland Ave. I don't
remember exactly
the reason, but anyway - He was a very austere person.
Did he often appear as the building was being built?
Well, that I couldn't say.
Did you know Bishop Lawler at all? - He was pastor of the Cathedral.
No - I never met him. Bishop Dowling I met several times - in fact -
he gave me a very nice letter of recommendation because I went back to
Italy and he gave me a
letter of introduction. When I got there I didn't use the letter
because the Pope got
sick and I couldn't use the letter, but I still keep the letter as a
memento.
When Archbishop Dowling was here, were you doing a lot of work in the
interior of
the Cathedral?
Not at that time - in fact - at that time there was not much work for
our company,
it was a young company - did not have the prestige like other
companies, like
McBride of New York; they did the work on the side chapel.
On the carving that is over the main entrance to the Cathedral on the
exterior at the gable -- What do you know about that?
I know that work by Hermant, the sculptor from New York - he was a
French Sculptor
a very good friend of the Architect E. L. Masquerey; that is the
reason they had the
commissions. They introduced the work in clay, then in plaster and
then the stone
carver produced it in granite.
What kind of tools did they use at that time?
In those days they had no pneumatic tools. The work was done with
hand tools;
chisel and hammer - that was all. The carving had all been done in
place - I have
no recollection of any being sent in. These sculptors were
specialists in Granite.
Coming into the main vestibule of the Cathedral - I believe that was done
in 1941 just prior to the National Eucharistic Congress that we had in
St. Paul - Did you do any work on the marble that is there?
No, not the marble, no - I think that it was the Drake Marble Co.
And did you have anything to do with the decoration?
Decoration, yes - the ceiling - that was the first part of the
decoration of the church
here at the Cathedral.
On the figuration in the ceiling of the main vestibule - were they all
there at the time?
Yes, it was already there - then we painted all different colors and
as it is at the
present time.
Coming into the main nave of the church, I notice carvings over the
three entry ways. Do you know anything about those, Mr. Capecchi?
No, I don't know where they came from. I know that Msgr. Lawrence
Ryan gave
me permission to execute them - to do those above the doors; those
we see
over the two Selby entrances and the two Dayton entrances.
In the main entry - two pedestals - urns were given by the Hill Family.
They were placed there temporarily until it was decided what statues
should be
placed there.
To the far left - the Shrine of the Blessed Virgin Mary - did you have
anything to do with
that?
That was done by McBride Co. We retouched the colors. The Shrine
of St. Joseph we retouched that also - it is also a McBride work.
Monsignor Lawrence Ryan,
pastor of the Cathedral from 1916 to 1940, he was a very good
friend of mine - he
commissioned me to provide the plaster models for the four statues.
Later Msgr.
Geo. Ryan commissioned me to do the redecorating of the dome,
transept, etc.
We did it piece-meal. I did the plaques: Pope Pius 12 and
Archbishop Murray. I
also designed and sculpted in clay the Stations of the Cross. They
were then cast
in bronze. In the dome area decoration there are four Mosaics of
the Cardinal
Virtues - designed by talented Artist Michelangelo Bedini. He
laid design in colors and they were made in Rome - special
studio in the Vatican - they were brought here and we put
them on - It's like a sheet of paper 1/4 inch thick.
Were you following any particular design?
No, the design was original.
Did you have anything to do with the pillars?
No, execution of placement of six pillars of the Baldachin were done
by McGinnis and Walsh. The bronze grilles - Adkins was sculptor
from Flour City of
Minneapolis.
These four heroic size statues of the Evangelists - who did those?
Three eminent sculptors gave bids on those. Mr. Angel was selected
to carve
these. Two were carved in Mankato stone by Mr. Bertozzi and the
other two were
done in Italy.
As we look toward the front of the Cathedral at St. Peter's Shrine -
where his sons
Joseph E. and Paul L. Capecchi, are painting now - also three
grandsons - Paul,
Jerry and Mark. They are very proud to do this work.
There was a window behind the shrines which have been closed - closed
because
light behind statues would detract from the statues. The statues
in the three
shrines should be larger - figure of St. Peter holding book in his
left hand
reflected the stance Archbishop Ireland and Msgr. Ryan seemed to take
when
preaching.
Over on the right hand side of the shrine of the Sacred Heart - did you
have anything to do with that?
No, it was done by McGinnis and Walsh. That shrine was done in the
early 30's.
There were bad times - work was scarce and the Company pleaded to do
the
work here.
We are now in the Sanctuary looking at marble floor and steps.
It is Botticino Marble. Marble on the floor is green with white
veins--this is green
of the Alps. Under the temporary altar, there is marble with
purplish hue - that
is Red Verona. The bronze shield on the floor is done first in
clay and then in
bronze. Panel on front of Altar - I'm not sure. Many places in
the Cathedral we see elegant wood carvings - they are probably
from Boston. Mr. Carlquist, a local man, also did some wood
carvings. He was an excellent carver. The previews we did
with the red coverings during the time of Rev. George Ryan.
The 9th National Eucharistic Congress was here in 1941 - that is when
they put the Exposition throne and the gradine in back of the main altar.
They were designed by DePrado Company who also furnished the bronze
candle sticks.
Your grandsons are working behind the screen - let us go talk to them.
We have been told that the circles in front of the shrines are from
Germany. We are now at the shrine of St. Cyril and Methodius - Mark,
grandson of Mr. Capecchi, is working up on the shrine painting above the
shrine.
Joseph E. Capecchi, my son, has worked 25 years at this type of
work. Stained
glass was done by Weston - the windows in the dome. This statuary
was made
abroad in Italy. The bronze rails, we placed them there for Msgr.
George. Ryan.
Babe Briosche is presently working on St. Peter's altar. His father
came from
Milano and worked for Minuti in plain plastering and shop work for
Brioschi-Minuti.
My early acquaintance with the Cathedral was in 1915 - 16 with the
first decoration
of the Cathedral. Beal and Hermant of Chicago were brought in
because
they were friends of the Hills. Our company - Brioschi-Minuti put
in the Cornice
work - Travertine finish.
Paul my granson is up in the scaffolding on the finishing work on the
apse of
the Cathedral. Paul Capecchi, that is.
Mr. Capecchi is there anything about the Cathedral or about the people,
you would like to talk about?
It is remarkable to see a place like this Cathedral completed. It
took 70 years.
What other church did you work on?
St. Mary's downtown, St. Lukes - I started in 1906 -- in sixty
years we covered most
all the churches in Minnesota and vicinity.
Observations on marble in the Sanctuary area itself -- Black Marble -
Portoro came
from the Northern part of Italy. Sanctuary Floor - we have green
marble with veins
in it - it is Botticino marble also from the Northern part of Italy.
The Main Altar
panel in front is Oconcaina Marble. The wainscoating is Travertine
Marble.
Do you remember the Cathedral when it was just brick in the interior?
Yes, It was then done in Mankato stone. Portable pulpit
originally - now pulpit
is carved in marble.
The lighting - originally - Do you remember that?
There was just a single cord right down the middle of the Dome -
light was changed by the maintenance man standing on the cat walk
- lassooing the
light - changing it and letting it go back in place.
Do you remember the years you worked here on decoration of the Cathedral?
It must have been in 1952 or 53. In the span of two years we did
the whole
thing.
Prior to the time you began - they were greatly concerned about
condensation?
Yes, and they did a lot of work to correct it. We are still
working on this problem.
Did you do any work on the Shrine of Nations?
No, we had nothing to do on these.
The Sacristy of the Cathedral was built in 1924 or 25 - Did St. Paul
Statuary have anything to do with it?
No - we did the re-decorating of it only.
Do you know if it is true that the decoration was modeled after the
Madelaine in Paris?
I don't know.
There are carvings in the Madelaine in Paris similar to those over
the four doors
here. They were done by Bertozzi from Petra Sancta - they were
experienced
carvers - They worked for Drake Marble plus being a free-lance
sculptor. Bertozzi died in 1973 in his 90's.
The middle aisle of the Cathedral is Pink Kasota Stone - honed finish.
The stone outside the Cathedral came from Rockville, Minnesota, near St.
Cloud.
You brought along a copy of the Pioneer Magazine Section of the St. Paul
Sunday Pioneer Press of 10-11-53, which features the Cathedral "Will
the Cathedral ever be completed?" Thank you Mr. Capecchi.
My grandson Paul is now attending St. John's University studying
Business Admin.; he says I like the painting I am doing.
Jerry, another grandson, is
also at St. John's as a biology major.
Thank you all.